“Stop it, stop it, stop” Swift screamed. She told Ellen, “This makes me feel so bad about myself. Every time I come up h

Ellen, as the “Be kind” lady easily could have apologized, or expressed some regret that Dakota had been uncertain. Instead, she doubled down on the shame to tell her that she was wrong and should have known better.

Well, for one thing, accountability matters. It’s not enough to act like a decent person on TV and then treat the people who work for you like trash. But more than that, we — the viewers, the audience, the people marketing with Ellen and the rest of us who are being marketed to — have voices and our voices are powerful.

But I’ve noticed a disturbing trend while watching some of her old interviews lately. She doesn’t seem to know how to back down or apologize. When people tell her she’s wrong, or when they even admit that something has hurt them, Ellen doesn’t empathize.

Obviously, that’s ridiculous, but it’s the sort of concession many of us make with privileged people. “Oh, they couldn’t possibly do that,” we say to ourselves. Except yes, yes they can.

Not when you’re willfully forcing people to admit pregnancies, divulge intimate details of their love lives, or basically looking for their weaknesses as your general interview technique.

In that infamous interview with Dakota Johnson, when the actress admitted that she didn’t know if Ellen even liked her, the talk show host tried to convince her that she should have known or felt differently than she did.

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emely simple yet extremely elegant idea. The idea was to add skip connections or shortcut connections, that created a gradient highway. This enabled gradients to flow better during the backward step, and greatly increased convergence, time of training and reduced gradient explosion and vanishing.

Dakota Johnson showed us how to not take crap from a pushy and rude person with a huge personality. But, she’s not the first person to do it. Back in 2016, Michelle Obama had enough of Ellen’s antics in CVS and point-blank told her she’s annoying.

And Hollywood has a long history of letting various abuses slide. Our reactions to allegations of abuse among celebrities frequently parallels the complex nature of our feelings about abuse among the rest of us. Just look at our supremely divided reactions to the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard saga.

Nope, I was wrong about Ellen, and it feels a lot like being wrong about white privilege, racism, or any other allegation of abuse. It was easier to believe that the funny, rich, white lady who starred in Mr. Wrong was the real deal. Easy to think she really did want to help other people and make this world a better place.

Plus, our persuasions frequently favor those with privilege. White people, slim bodies, pretty people, rich people, those who happened to do something “really nice” one time on TV… the reasons vary, but they’re frequently pretty lame.

Three years earlier, Ellen pressed Taylor Swift to the verge of tears as she mocked the musician’s dating history and insisted that she’d had a relationship with Zac Efron.

Had I spent some time watching the show — instead of just a few funny clips over the years — I might have realized that she uses discomfort as a crutch in her comedy. And that doesn’t really jive with the whole queen of nice facade, does it?

There are a lot of people who would argue that none of this matters. As in, who cares if a talk show host is really as nice as her celebrity persona heavily implies. I’d argue that it matters because the celebrities we revere do shape our culture in many ways — like it or not.

It’s just another form of gaslighting. Instead of acknowledging that relationships are hard — and I’d suspect that especially goes for celebrities — Ellen doubled-down on the idea that she had always “shown her like” to Dakota.